This weekend was Old Souls Day, a day where the Chinese honour their ancestors with a visit to the cemetery to offer prayers, food, burn joss sticks and the like. Though J and his family follow this important ritual, I've never been because he's always said it's not necessary, it's very hot and there's no need for me to go. They converge at the family home and then visit the cemetery together. This year, though, J said he didn't feel like going at all.
On Sunday though, I woke at 7.00 am to a soft knock on my door. It wasn't the kids, they never knock. It was J, telling me he'd decided to go to his family's house after all, then said he'd like to take the kids and asked if I wanted to come. I didn't want to say no, so I said yes, I'll come with you. I wanted him to be able to take the kids to this event. They're old enough now, they can take the heat a little better. They should know their history.
It was a risky decision for J to make. Even though I've settled down and told him of my 'positive plan', he still doesn't know whether something he does or says will 'set me off'. I can appreciate that and so I was serious when I thought to myself "I have to make this a positive day for him and the kids".
So we went and the day passed uneventfully. Then back home, he took another risk and told me this:
"The thing that upset me the most when we were together was that you would push and push and push (his buttons), like you were really trying to get a reaction out of me and then when you got the reaction you wanted, you'd get angry and say "see, see what a bastard you are, see how you treat me..." Is this true? Did I really do that? Probably, it does sound familiar, though I wouldn't be sitting there plotting how many annoying things I'm going to do to get him angry. Nevertheless, I probably still did it. He says I did.
Now, normally I would have gotten all defensive and said things like "but I never meant to do that" or "I didn't realise that that was what I was doing" or even "it's so unfair of you to feel that way, you shouldn't be feeling that way" and again, gotten annoyed and angry, because that's what we over-sensitive, defensive people do. But in the spirit of the new positive, 'let-it-go' state of mind, I just listened to him, trying to understand how he felt in the relationship, letting him say what he needed to say. Even if I never get to say to him what I 'want' to say, I'm just going to let him talk, to get it out because let me tell you, he didn't feel good. And I know better than most how toxic it is to keep that stuff inside of you.
So he said what he said, I didn't counter any of it, choosing instead to remind him of the person he used to be - gentle, kind, determined, driven, smart, confident and stable.
After that, well, nothing really. I didn't make it it into an issue, I'm not going to put forward my point of view or my thoughts. I'm not going to bring up what he said at a later date. I don't need to tell him any of those things. I'm just going to shut-up, listen if he wants to talk and get on with what I need to do.
Any other path of action will surely lead us down a path where we don't want to go.
It makes the blog a bit of a boring read though, doesn't it. Well, I've had enough of the dramas, the crying, the anguish. I just want to be boring, calm and stable for a while. I'll still write, but I'm not going to whinge. Instead, I'll try to keep it simple and just reflect on what's happening around me. I will have moods, spirals and the like, but if I just get on with it, I'll be better off. If I don't buy into the behaviour, maybe the behaviour will go away.
5 comments:
Just let him know that you are avoiding that type of action and hope he can be a bit more like the person you remember as kind too you? DOnt loose the fire just loose the dangerous anger because that is the stuff that will hurt you as much as it hurts him. Turn those loose loose situations into a win win. It does not matter if only you do it so long as one of you does. You are not being boring you are just allowing yourself to gain perspective.
Good on you.
Here I am again with a big no “buts” post.
I can understand your attitude up to a point Jo, I just cannot see the same benefits.
OK Jo, I confess that what I lack in insightful communication skills I surely make up for with bluntness and insensitivity so here is an opinion for discussion.
Touchy feely this post ain’t. I guess there is still sting is still in my tail.
What if you are partially correct? Say 50% with what you say and believe.
At what point do you have your say and correct that constant, ongoing litany of belittling statements and innuendo that appears to have reinforced in some recesses of your mind (not ours) that
• It is your fault.
• If only I had done this or that.
• Why could I have not been that person that Jin required?
Yes I understand it avoids an argument, it does nothing though to resolve fallacies.
I am not suggesting an instantaneous personality change from door mouse to rabid dog would change the situation! Far from it.
I just cannot see how you can be at peace with yourself without the occasional “I see your point of view I just cannot agree” or “yes I know that is your opinion I like others though disagree” coming out.
This was being typed while Peter posted his and same thoughts here.
Why is it when you are in a “civilised social situation” you exhibit none of these traits that appear to so damn you in Jins eyes?
Why is that JO?
Why not ask the other posters here if they would degrade you in the same way?
Jo you are not an idiot, far from it!
Every time you talk, I listen to you and not always agree …..so what!
Remember to be your own person. Ok, so you may need to exhibit the level of tact that so often eludes me and somehow you need to enjoy your experiences.
When you are being verbally berated without being able to blow off steam you can blow up.
For me a laugh needs to be a daily event not a weekly smile.
Best wishes
Peter, thanks. Losing the anger, which I did before, seems to be the way to go in all of this. It's never served me well. We are both trying to do that.
Mr Scorpio, the benefit for me that this attitude coupled with some acceptance helps me stay stable - a huge benefit for me. I don't care anymore whether I'm right, or half right - it doesn't make a difference to what he thinks and I'm so tired of fighting just to be right. J and I agree on one thing here, we will both see our past differently and nothing will change that. But if he wants to put forward his point of view, that's fine. I'll listen. I don't have to agree and I don't have to tell him I don't - we're not together anymore and won't be in the future so it doesn't matter. He already knows how I feel - he knows I don't think it's all my fault cos I have told him on numerous occasions. But when he wants to talk and say things, then I'll let him. It's OK. I'll say it's my fault even though I know it's not. It can't be because there are two of us. Whether he wants to listen to that and believe it is up to him. I have no control over that, just as he doesn't over me.
As to why I don't exhibit these traits when I'm with other people, well, I think it's because I'm different with different people. If I know I'm accepted and I feel comfortable, I'm myself, that person you know who smiles and laughs and is generally comfortable but when I'm with someone who makes me anxious or who I see as 'above' me (I mean like a President or someone), then I'm different. Goodbye confidence, hello timid little mouse. And I can be 'nervously aggressive' too!
Separate from him in this situation, I can be more of myself, though I'm a bit quieter. I can live with this though and as for expressing myself, well, that's exactly what I set up the blog for. And don't forget, what you read here is very one-sided. Sometimes I forget to include stuff we've said or I've omitted certain details, so even though it represents my perspective, it still may not be accurate.
Jo, I think it's ok for you to react or not react to J the way you've decided to. Let's face it, our reactions are the only things we can control, and sometimes it's really hard to do just that!
I see that you are in a vulnerable position, and you do need to protect yourself. If that means being a little "tip toey" around J, then so be it. Also having been in a similar situation myself, I know that it gets to the stage where it's a no-win situation; it's like your role is cast in stone as the wrong one, the hopeless one, the stupid one, and that's all the other person can see, and all they can think.
If you show him you are not that person, not with words, but with actions, then he may slowly start to realise that there might be some errors in his thinking.
But you can't have this aim without it being purely for yourself and your recovery. You can't be wanting to change his mind, or change the way he thinks of you. The time for that is past. It's more about what you think of yourself that matters here and now. And you kids. But primarily you.
Mr Scorpio I don't think you can equate your friendship and the expectations you have, and allowances you make, with a friend, and someone who's been in a relationship like Jo. Jo and J are not friends, they are exes, and this is so loaded and difficult. What they are doing, sharing the same living space, is so hard. You can't just say "Ok, new rules, now that we're not together."
It just doesn't work like that.
Also things like fallacies are so fluid. What's true for me, might be false for someone else, and this is never as apparent as in a love relationship, or a hate relationship, which unfortunately a marriage can descend to. The two things are so close to each other, and can even co-exist. Jo's reality is different to J's, and vice versa. It's that same with all individuals, and has been through history. It's just accentuated in a close personal relationship.
Jo you are doing the right thing, and I don't see that you are hugely compromising yourself, as long as you protect yourself and you think you are getting something out of this situation. Which you have said you are: ie giving your children what you want, and doing that together with J. Having decided to stay there, that's one decision. How to manage to be there reasonably happily and healthily, that's another decision, and one that you are managing successfully in my mind. Your strength is obvious.
I think it's big of you too to try to see things from J's perspective. It's never a one-way thing. By you trying to identify what you might have contributed to the problems is very mature. Maybe he'll learn from you, maybe he won't. That's irrelevant. But you are becoming a more developed person through all of this. And that can only be a good thing.
We grow through pain. We really do.
Melba, wise words as always. They made me feel better - validated I guess. I really can't think of just myself in all of this. There's the kids and J too, he deserves some consideration. If I take all the emotion out of this situation, I'm OK, we're OK. It's just when all of that horrible stuff bubbles to the surface that things get tricky for a while. And we choose to let it pass.
It's all I can do and it's the best thing I think I can do for the sake of my children, who did not ask to be put in this situation.
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